Raw Feeding For A Gsd? (or Any Dog, Really)?
I am in the process of researching about raw feeding, and have come to realize that there are 2 ways to go about it: buying the food pre-packaged or purchasing through a butcher.
I have a few questions to ask in regard to these methods:
1. Having read about the disadvantages of pre-packaged raw meals, the most important concern I have is whether they are worth the price and if it is actually balanced. I’ve heard of some companies that have added unnecessary vitamins as well as certain ingredients… how true do you suppose this is?
2. What method is preferred?
3. For those of you that have been feeding your dog a homemade raw diet, how do you calculate the phosphorus/calcium ratio?
From my understanding, the approximate feeding ratios for an adult dog are as follows:
Meat (muscle, meaty chicken carcasses, necks) 65-75%
Organs (heart, liver, stomach/tripe) 5-10%
Raw and meaty knuckle bones (for tooth cleaning etc) 5-15%
Vegetation (crushed or juiced) 5-25%
Supplements (cold pressed oil, mineral/vitamin supplements) … are these really needed?
4. Are there different feeding requirements for puppies? I am thinking about getting a German Shepherd pup a few months down the road (after I have done all my research in the breed, feeding and training thoroughly) and understand that protein and calcium levels must be measured carefully particularly for puppies that will grow to become large dogs… does anyone have knowledge on this?
The breeder I am purchasing from has her breeding stock and puppies on a pre-packaged raw food, so there should be no concerns on transition.
Thanks so much!
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Most of the pet-people in YahooAnswers get their “knowledge” of nutrition from kibble manufacturers. Is it surprising that kibble manufacturers don’t recommend REAL food? Even though the research on bloat (see first link) shows that the period in which bloat escalated some 18000% matches the period in which kibbles went from virtually unknown to virtually universal? Even though many people who have switched their old dogs from kibbles to a meat-based diet have found that their dog becomes young again?
To me, if it comes in cups it’s not dog food.
However, do NOT get sucked in by any fad diet, such as BARF, RAW, or any other collection of letters.
Fad diets make you anxious about “balance”. African hunting dogs, coyotes, dingos, pariahs, wolves don’t worry about “balance”, they take what they can get. Only when times are desperate do they attempt to assuage their hunger with tubers and indigestible grains.
Feeding a dog should be, and IS, simple.
See, dogs are canids. Canids are carnivores. Carnivores have a short digestive tract, and enzymes perfectly adapted to a diet of animal protein – birds, eggs, fish, insects, mammals, reptiles – whether fresh killed or carrion. They lack the enzymes needed to break down the cellulose walls of plant materials, they lack the enzymes to convert plant proteins to digested products – and even if they had both sets of enzymes, their gut is too short to give the enzymes time to work. Crushing & cooking makes plant protein digestible, but denatures the vitamins.
Add to that the fact that for millennia dogs have adapted to survive on whatever scraps their owners threw to them, plus whatever rodents & other vertebrates & insects they could catch (one of mine had a marigold that was “hers” – she’d lie by it until a fly or bee landed to sip the nectar, whereupon she snapped up that insect – twice I had to take her to the vet for an anti histamine when her throat swelled), and you realise how easy it is to feed a dog.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_G… will give you a host of ideas on how to feed adults, including how to compare different kibbles (if you MUST!). If your family cooks healthily I recommend that the diet be raw meat-on-the-bone, supplemented by whatever cooked table-scraps are available. Note that the research on bloat recommends that if you MUST feed kibbles they should have table-scraps on top. Apart from the “no no”s of fish needles and baked/roasted bones, cooked table scraps can be used at any time from about 6 weeks on. But keep in mind that offals MUST be cooked – when raw they are a means of spreading hydatids and other internal parasites.
However you feed him, his last meal each day should include a gnaw bone – it gives him something to do while you’re all boringly asleep; the gnawing cleans his teeth, helps dislodge deciduous teeth, and helps permanent teeth break through the gums; any bits he chomps off get digested & have a perfect calcium to phosphorous balance.
Only if you have chosen badly and bought yourself a pooch with poor genetics need you worry about the calcium : phosphorus balance, or any other balance.
My adult dogs (currently 8, 12, 12, 14 years old) have a basic diet of lambs’ briskets, supplemented by commercial dog biscuits plus whatever tidbits they think they MIGHT like so ask nicely for – usually cheese, but they also occasionally get canned beetroot, or drops of meat-paste or peanut butter, or bits of canned salmon (I draw the line when one asks for jam or pickles….), or yoghurt. When it is available cheaply enough they get venison throats, shark, and the like as a change of diet. If you know hunters, any meat they are willing to drop off is a bonus. When we lived rural we rarely bought dog-meat, because farmers would tell us that a cow or horse or sheep had just died, so we’d collect knives, shovel & axe and head to that farm – the smell might bother humans, but dogs were designed to thrive on carrion.
Forget about buying from a butcher. Ditto suppliers of pre-packaged “diets”. Either way adds enormously to your costs.
First get a large chest freezer – who cares how old, dented & rusty it looks, if it’s hidden in the car-shed or basement? Then you can buy in bulk and at near-wholesale rates from an abattoir or freezing works.
Pups are slightly different – for them I start with a much-fortified milk mix into which I beat or stir age-appropriate meats. If you want my recipe, click my photo and send me your e-address.
Les P, owner of GSD_Friendly: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSD_F…
“In GSDs” as of 1967
Good for you! I feed raw and think it’s great.
1. Prepackaged raw diets are a big waste of money. They are very expensive and your dog will be missing out on the dental benefits of chewing on whole bones.
2. Method? I prefer prey model diet.
3. I don’t really calculate. I just try to feed a diet that most closely resembles a whole animal.
4. Here is a diet for GSD puppies: http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm
Buy this book: http://leerburg.com/935.htm
Menu for adult dogs: http://leerburg.com/diet2.htm
Article on raw feeding: http://leerburg.com/diet.htm
You make it sound complicated.
I stay away from pre-made raw because there isn’t the benefit of bone, the bones are ground in pre-made raw. Also price is a factor as well. Its sooo much cheaper to shop around for deals on meat than it is to buy prey model, especially with 2 large dogs.
I shoot for an 80/10/10 ratio. 80% meat, 10% organ (half of that is liver) and 10% bone. Of course this isn’t met everyday, and that ok, you’re going for balance over time. I feed this ratio because that would be the ratio of a real prey animal. I feed “frankenprey” because its cheaper, so that means I take pieces of animals to make up a prey animal.
I don’t feed any veggies, or supplements. I feed fish, whole or filleted depending on price every couple of weeks.
Feeding a puppy really is not different than feeding an adult raw. Except with a pup you will feed for its ideal ADULT weight. You will also divide the meals into 3 feedings a day.
Here are some links you’ll be interested in http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_D…
This link has lots of information on getting started. http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_D…
This one includes a handy spreadsheet to help you calculate everything.
1. Very true. There are some companies that will add still certain ingredients that can be labelled as fillers which are unneeded.
Also, they tend to be a lot more expensive than preparing the food on your own. What I do is purchase a whole lot that’s on sale, and packaged it up in portions and freeze it. $30 for about 1-1.5 months for a 40lbs border collie.
2. Personally I prefer using the prey model diet, and preparing myself. Well most preferred would be to use a whole carcass, however that is not an option for me at this point in time.
3. The ratio that is supposed to be fed is 80:10:10, meat:bones:organs.
Meat: this is muscle meats. Muscle attached to bones, and also parts of the body that are organs, but are muscular in nature (non-secreting). This includes, tongue, heart, gizzards, trachea, skin
Edible bone: we consider weight-bearing bones of large animals as teeth breakers and not very edible. Edible bones tend to be less dense, more porous. Depending on the size of the dog, edible bones range from chickens, to turkey, to duck, to fish, to rabbit, to pork, to goat, to lamb.
Secreting organs: liver should be half the organ allotment. The rest can be made up of kidney, spleen, thymus, pancreas, lung,
Vegetation is not essential to a dogs diet, nor are the supplements.
4. Most raw prey model feeders feed 2 – 3% of the projected adult body weight. So a little GSD puppy, who may grow to be 80 lbs, will still be fed about 2% of the 80 lbs as a puppy. Just spaced out over a few feedings since puppies do better with more frequent feedings. Once they hit about 6 mths, you can back off to twice a day, and once a year old, you can do once a day, or even the gorge/fast if that’s what you prefer.
1. Prepackaged food is a waste of your money. It’s expensive, has too many fillers, and you don’t know the quality of the meat that’s going into it.
2. I prefer and feed whole prey style. Meaning, I try to mimic what a wolf (same as a dog! They are both carnivores!) would eat in the wild. No vegetables or supplements. I simply thaw what I intend to feed her, and hand it to her. Tonight she got a part of a rabbit.
3. Again, dogs are carnivores. They don’t need plant matter. The general guidelines are this.
80% Meat
10% Edible Bone
5% Organs
5% Liver
Supplements aren’t needed, unless you don’t plan on feeding fish or meat that has natural omega 3’s. In that case, I would add a fish oil capsule every couple of days or so.
4. For puppies, it is recommended that you feed 2-3% of their ideal ADULT body weight. Let’s say a dog was going to be around 50 pounds, 1% of 50 is .5, .5×2=1 pound of food per day.
This is how I recommend to feed. It’s easy, healthy, inexpensive, and is what is best for your dog. I have included links at the bottom for you.