Raw Feeders!! I’m In Need Of Information For Feeding Raw…?
I almost have my mother completely convinced on at least trying out a raw diet for our dogs.
Our dogs don’t do good on “high rated” dry foods, we don’t like feeding canned at all, and I don’t like having to feed them low-grade foods [no matter how they do on them].
The only thing that’s holding my mother back is the thought that we’d have dog fights, due to them not having their own bowls for the foods [it's possible to use bowls if necessary, though, right?].
We’ve never had such problems, but she has the slight indication of thinking that they’ll fight over the raw since it’s “natural bloody meat” [aka, delicious].
Anyway.
I’m in the process of gathering names/numbers of local butcheries and what-not [what other places should I contact?], but I’m not sure what I should ask for.
I know there’s the chicken, necks, fish, beef, and… well that’s really all I’ve got thus far.
I’ve done tons of research; but it seems like one huge jumble of information right now.
So my questions:
Are there any websites or books you’d personally suggest [we really don't have a very well-versed dog section at any of the local libraries]?
Do you have any charts or something of the sort that you’d suggest a beginner to refer to until they get “better at raw feeding”?
What other places would you suggest I get into contact with, besides Butcheries?
Would you suggest switching a 13 year old dog to a raw diet, or would the switch be bad for them? If it’s still suggested, how long should it take to switch from kibble to completely raw for him?
Thanks a ton.
Any other advice you can give [that you think would be helpful], is *definitely* greatly appreciated.
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Resources for information and a few sites you can order from for hard to find organs and things like rabbit and fresh tripehttp://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFr… -store sitehttp://www.rawfeddogs.net/http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm to calculate what amount each dog needshttp://www.halshan.com/products.html store sitehttp://www.hare-today.com/ – store sitehttp://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.htmlhttp://www.mypetcarnivore.com/rawfeeding…http://rawdiettruth.blogspot.com/http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawCh…http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rawfe…
Do you have any charts or something of the sort that you’d suggest a beginner to refer to until they get “better at raw feeding”?
If you are doing straight raw – no veggies – just remember everyone starts at 80%meat/10%meaty bones/10%organs – half of which is organ
Go slow stick with just chicken for a while then introduce liver and then go from there. Not every dog need 80/10/10. Every dog is different and you will figure out who needs less bone who needs more etc
What other places would you suggest I get into contact with, besides Butcheries? The meat counter managers at your regular grocery stores, managers at discount groceries, local farmers and local rabbit/goat breeders – good source of culls. local hunters – you can usually get some very good scraps and organs from them, relatives(dogs don’t mind freezer burned meat)
I would *definitely* recommend going to http://www.rawlearning.com/ !!!
I love talking about a raw food diet because I think it’s so healthy and species appropriate for dogs.
About your mother’s concerns over fighting. Some dogs are fine eating around each other with raw, some aren’t. My 2 can eat in the same room and even if they had to, share the same food mat, but they would not tolerate the other reaching over and getting some of the others food. They respect each other.
I have 2 separate food mats for them that I lay down. At first they didn’t want to eat on the mats, they wanted to drag the raw food to their bed or somewhere. But I just picked it back up and put it on their mats and they got the idea soon.
I would use mats or blankets for your dogs too, one for each of them, so they can respect each other and not fight. But just fyi, raw meat won’t make them anymore vicious or bloodthirsty or aggressive with each other or anyone else.
I think everyone who first starts out to feed raw gets overwhelmed with all the info to be learned. It gets much easier once you start. Pretty soon you’ll be like me, answering a question for someone about how to feed a raw diet:)
I was so confused at first, it felt like rocket science, I went on yahoo rawfeeding group and they told me it’s like sharpening a pencil, sooner or later you have to start writing. So I made the jump and fed chicken quarters, thighs, wings, legs and a little necks and backs for 2 weeks. That’s not what a balanced raw diet is, it’s just the start of one, but just starting it helped me realize how good it is and just calm some of my anxieties about feeding raw meat.
I suggest you go to all the small pet stores you can. Ask if the owners are certified in canine nutrition, most of them if not all will be. Ask them to consult you about a raw food diet and ask for any literature they give out about it, I got alot of resourses and help that way because most store owners will be more than happy to encourage and educate you about a raw food diet.
Also contact online raw stores, they are also very helpful in educating and answering your questions about a raw diet, such as http://www.prey4pets.com and http://www.aplaceforpaws.com
For more places to buy meat, search yahoo for local co-ops in your area, these are small groups of people who buy together in bulk to make the cost of raw meat cheaper. You meet at a neutral place to pick up your shares.
I definately suggest switching a 13 year old to raw, the water in the meat will be great for him, plus no more chemical preservatives or fillers. Just be sure to cut off most the fat on his meat cuts and you may have to feed him proteins that are leaner than others (like beef heart vs. pork) And I would switch him cold turkey. If he has a sensitive stomach, fast him for a day before you make the switch(dont restrict water though).
This is an excellent list of “newbie” resources to use:http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_D…
Are there any websites or books you’d personally suggest [we really don't have a very well-versed dog section at any of the local libraries]?
The sites I like have already been listed. A good book to read is *Work Wonders* by Tom Lonsdale. Its a small book that you can read in a night. There’s another book available online by Dr Clare Middle, the third Australian vet to write about raw feeding. It’s called *Real food for Cats and Dogs*. Whilst I dont completely agree with her way of feeding, she really educates you on how the dogs stomache actually works and how their digestion is different from ours. it is available online.
Do you have any charts or something of the sort that you’d suggest a beginner to refer to until they get “better at raw feeding”?
All you need to do in the beginning is get you dogs used to eating raw. Stick with chicken (usually with bone is preffered) for a few weeks before introducing another type of protein, then stick with that protein for a few weeks, and then intoduce offal, tiny amounts at first until your dog gets used to it. After that you can pretty much start to include everything .The books and websites will have all you need, just write yourself up a chart with the info from there.
What other places would you suggest I get into contact with, besides Butcheries?
This is where it gets fun! Meat sections in supermarkets, be sure to ask them what days they have specials or bulk discounts, see if there are any farms nearby- I have a venison farm near me which I stock up from, put an ad in any papers- I advertise for rabbits and roo tails! Set your own rat/rabbit traps, go to fish markets or fish shops-they usually give away fish heads- I get salmon tails and heads for my dogs, sometimes aboitoirs will sell off by products too.
Would you suggest switching a 13 year old dog to a raw diet, or would the switch be bad for them? If it’s still suggested, how long should it take to switch from kibble to completely raw for him?
Ive switched to 13 years olds completely onto raw, after a lifetime of kibble. One had very bad arthriris so I gave her extra fish and chicken with bone for glucosamine, the other was very active so she ate a regular diet similar to Rocco. Now most senior dogs take to the diet just fine but you need to monitor how their progress is going and feed accordingly. Some may not take to it so well, their stomache acids have been out of whack their whole lives, getting the stomache PH down to 1, essential for a raw diet, just may not happen. A lifetime of cooked food can make the transition harder. You need to be the judge on this one.
I think you’ll find with the websites provided all the information you will need is right there.
Good Luck.
Add; Just as an afterthought, I find the frozen bait section of the supermarket and petrol station a little goldmine. I get frozen spleen there and also raw whole frozen pilchards/sardines/other fish etc.
Check out the frozen section of your local supermarket, I get bags of frozen organic roo meat there for dogs (preservative and supplement free) and I also get a mixed bag of roo/beef/donkey meat there too.
Pet suppliers often sell the same meat in bulk at a cheaper price than the supermarkets here. And look in the phonebook for some bulk meat suppliers-that’s where your savings really come in.
You can switch from RAW to Kibble and back with no issues, even within the same day but NEVER give them kibble (cooked food) and raw (uncooked) together as this may cause digestive upset.
Why wouldn’t you put the food into bowls? My breeder had HUGE mixing bowls for each of her dogs and the dogs were fed in their crates and she never had an issue, even when she had three adults and a litter of eight.
Don’t give your dogs fish – fish oil. Make sure when you give them chicken you give them chicken backs and not just the meat. The dog needs a ratio of bone to meat to keep them from getting diarrhea. If their stool is too soft they need more bone, chalky and dry they need more meat. That is part of why beef doesn’t usually make it onto the raw feeding list. Poultry, yogurt, eggs and fruit.
go to http://www.tradewindkennels.com/ and contact the woman who runs the site. She is a wealth of knowledge and check out her pictures. All her dogs are fed raw. She may have more info than people on YA
Youve gotten some really great answers so far. I do have to add you will find a wealth of info on the rawfeeding and rawchat lists on yahoo groups. Weve got over 15000 members and if you go there and check out the Lis List, it is the ULTIMATE resource guide for newbie rawfeeders.
As for your moms concern over fighting, fighting is a TRAINING ISSUE, not a food issue. If you dogs will fight over food, they will fight over ANY food…which indicates a training issue. Dogs will fight over toys, over favorite spots to lay, heck even over kibble…. common sense and proper supervision and training will eliminate this issue. changing food, will not.
I have 9 dogs right now and I feed all nine of them loose, out in the yard, or in the kitchen at the same time. When eating in the kitchen, they all have little fleecy mats or towels and they take their food item and go munch on their towels. When we are outside, they go to whereever they want to eat and as soon one is done, they must come sit on the porch, until everyone is done. There is no scavenging and running around bothering the others while they are eating. its a great mental exercise for them.
As for how long to switch, ditch the kibble NOW and start feeding raw food, no “transition” is needed and in fact very much NOT recommended due to the different rates at which raw food and kibble will digest. Kibble remains in the system for days…raw a short number of hours. Your older dog will live better than ever before when you switch, do not deny him real food in his elderly years!
You neednt “get better” at rawfeeding, all you do is hand an appropriately size rawfood item to the dog and get out of the way. theres no recipe, no chart needed…..get chicken, hand chicken to dog. DONE!
Chicken necks are not recommeded, they are nothing more than a calcium pill. There is very little meat, and they tend to be quite small, so unless you have tiny tiny dogs and are going to be adding in alot of meaty meat, Id not bother with chicken necks unless someone gave me a truckload for free…. Big Tom Turkey necks are another story….they are meatier and much larger. I get them by the case and my dogs range in size from 5 pds to 12 pds. One neck is usually part of two or three seperate meals. The kids get some meaty meat (usually venison, or other boneless something) and then I let them chew on the turkey necks until they get tired, or full. I do not interfere. I let them say when they are done…..if they eat half, thats fine, if they dont eat much at all, thats fine too. Ive also had one little 10pd crested eat an ENTIRE tom turkey neck in one sitting……and that was fine too. Usually if he does this he wont want to eat the following day and thats fine, he can skip that day. No problem.
My kids eat mostly rabbit and deer meat, all wild caught and they do show an interesting and distinct preference for the wild game meats, over anything I can get at the store. I do use locally raised pork as well, to add in some fat to their otherwise very lean wild game diets. My kids have been eating raw exclusively for 18 months now and have eaten beef, pork, chicken, deer, rabbit, goat, frog, duck, turkey, and fish.
HTH
best of luck and hope to see you over on the rawfeeding lists!