Question For Feeding My Dog Raw Food?
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Nov 8th, 2009 |
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how much does he needs ? i know i can buy the barf diet ,but the point of me feeding raw is to know what he is eating so i wanted to do it myself.
he is a 9 month old doberman and i already feed him fresh tripe 3 times a week and raw veggies .
i’m just not confident i know enough to start him on raw 100% of the time and the amounts needed
any help please
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Best thing is to get a good book, like the Tom Lonsdale book (amazon) read up on raw learning websites, and join an email group to help guide you ever step of the way. Well done on taking this step, once you have switched you will never look back but I understand it is daunting at first.
I am also in the UK and have fed my dogs this way for 14 years now, Yorkies and Border Collies.
I hope the links below will help, one is also for a source of supply in the UK. #
The last link is to a UK based email group for raw feeding.
ADDED : Dogs evolved to eat raw food, not cooked or unnatural cereals and fillers. Don’t listen to the many negatives you can get from people who have yet to research this. If you have ever had a chance to observe wild dogs IN THE WILD you will understand this.
Daily quantities of raw, meaty bones: for every 10kg of body weight, a dog should eat 100–150g of meaty bones. This is only a guideline to start: if your dog is gaining weight, reduce the quantity; if it is losing weight, increase it.
For every handful of meaty bones, feed two handfuls of liquidised raw veg* – a bit like the old adage about ‘meat and two veg’!
The best book on the subject is ‘The Barf Diet’ (ISBN 0 958 592 1 9) by Dr Ian Billinghurst, an Australian vet with more than twenty years’ practice experience. It can be purchased from several UK-based mail-order houses or via the Internet. The above is basically a concise simplification of Dr Billinghurst’s book.
You feed 2-3% of the adult body weight (or ideal adult body weight) per day. (In your case the estimated adult body weight).
My boy weighs 24kgs, so at 2% i feed 480gms, and at 3% I feed 720gms.
Feed various meats (include heart and cheek etc), making up a majority of the meals, raw meaty bones (with an emphasis on the meaty), offal around 10% of the diet ( 5% of that being liver), eggs with shell, fish etc
Feed any whole carcasses when you can eg. whole chicken cut in half, whole rabbit cut in half, whole fish etc (Easy!)
If you are going to feed table scraps/vegies, stick to 5% of the diet. Pulverise vegies-grated vegies dont digest.
At 9 months cut back to 2 meals a day. My 4 month old Stafford is already only on 2 meals a day and by 9 months she’ll be down to one large meal.
And if you havnt added organs to his diet yet DO IT SLOWLY, organs are important, but can be a bit rich at first. Start off with small amounts added to his food then increase over a period of a few weeks. My Stafford pup is now eating the same amount of organ as my adult.
All the links you need to get started have already been listed but if you do a google search you may get some additional info.
Good Luck.
Add; Heart is considered meat, not organ, so if you can get it cheap- feed as you would meat.
Vegetables are unneeded in Raw Diet. You can immediately start Raw Diet after the puppy is weaned from the mother. The best part is the organs, which are cheap and effective. I fed my dogs raw diet the day I got them. I also feed them kibble so it lasts longer. (2 bowls of Kibble and a meal of raw diet a day) which goes a long way rather than three meals of raw diet a day. (I would feed straight raw diet BUT due to economy, it’s impossible for a 16 year old, lol) If you have any questions, feel free to reply back or e-mail me.
The link posted by previous answerers is a great place to start.http://www.rawlearning.com/
Add to Cobymox : Nice cut & paste from The Burns Pet food company, LOL:
(What would you expect a commercial pet food company (especially one so heavy on grain content) to say about a raw diet?
“A diet based on whole, cereal grains can meet the task of being convenient as well as bestowing health benefits” ???http://burnspet.co.uk/articles/art5.asp
You need to read very carefully everything Ms Tyra and Rocco said about this, they are good at this and totally right.
By the way, my eyes are hurting from reading the book between the two of you…LOL No, you both did great on this one.
nothing else to add…..
2 to 3% percent of the dogs weight daily. Younger dogs, under two years of age, get three percent and also get more bone. Older dogs only need 2% and require less bone.
80% muscle meat
10% organ meat
10% bone.
Raw food must provide a balance of vitamins and minerals, so research and discussions with your vet are important before starting. Here’s more info:http://dogtime.com/raw-food-diet-martine…
I guess it all depends on what your dog takes to best.
Dogs are not designed or equipped to properly digest and absorb cooked food, as we humans are. They have been evolving on this planet for 40 million years (more than 2000 times the entire history of human evolution) eating fresh food. Their mouths, teeth, stomach, intestines, organs and enzymes, are all evolved to masticate, process, digest and absorb raw food (not cooked food).
There is a growing stockpile of scientific evidence that links the long term consumption of cooked commercial pet foods, to the development of a vast array of common illnesses and degenerative diseases, including cancer. Skin disease and dermatitis, allergies, teeth and gum disease, arthritis, renal failure, ear infections, obesity, reproductive failure, and anal gland blockage can all be linked to improper nutrition, and can all lead to poorer quality of life for both pet and owner.
As the owner of 2 Champion Dobermann Show Dogs and a BARF feeder I can give you an outline of what I feed my dogs. I am in Australia and the links given are also Australian but you can find similar products all over the world it just takes a bit of researching.
Morning -
Bones are very important – Lamb Brisket / Lamb Chine / Beef Brisket / Whole Chicken Frames / Chicken Necks – are an essential part of the diet – they will clean the teeth and work the jaw muscles – all the bones I have listed are 100% edible whereas some bones like beef marrow bones or lamb shanks are brittle undigestable bone and can be dangerous if a splinter is consumed, they also leave bones around the yard for burying or the lawn mower getting so best avoided – go for bones the dogs can eat the whole thing.
Every couple of days I also give 2-3 fresh sardines per dog whole.
DINNER MIX – The mix I use is made up of
30% Chunky Beef Mince (Human grade – reasonably lean not diet)
30% Minced whole Chicken Frames
20% Chopped Offal – Lamb Liver / Lamb kidneys / Lamb brains / beef heart.
10% Soaked Fermented Vets All Natural (link below)
10% Grated Vegetables and Fruit (Carrot/Apple/Zuchinni/Spinach etc)
I make up 50Kg per month and weigh it up into individual servings and freeze it (Adult Male dog gets 650gms Adult Female gets 450gm)
VETS ALL NATURAL:
Complete mix contains a combination of mixed cereal grains (rolled oats, cracked barley, soybean meal, flax seed meal, and whole oats), dried vegetables and fruit, dried garlic, dried parsley, dried barley grass, calcium powder, yeast powder, kelp granules, lecithin granules and vitamin C powder.http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/PDFS/CM…
To the defrosted servings I add some supplements which I will post the links for.
Omega Oil Blend –
This is a specially formulated oil blend for dogs & cats to help supply essential fatty acids, vitamins A, D & extra vitamin E. Contains 100% cold-pressed oils – safflower, flaxseed, sunflower, cod liver oil, evening primrose oil, wheatgerm oil and pure vitamin E oil. Simply add to your pets food daily.!http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart…
Green Essentials –
This is a natural food supplement recommended for all dogs and cats. It contains a blend of highly nutritious foods and supplements to help maintain optimum health. Contains vitamins, minerals, enzymes, trace elements and fatty acids. 100% Australian made. Good nutrition is essential for disease prevention. Contains – flax meal, rice bran, dolomite, kelp, spirulina, green barley powder, nettle, alfalfa, garlic, rosehips and blackstrap molasses.http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart…
Probiotic Powder – Pet Pep Up for Dogs (Missing link for dogs is very similar)
An organic probiotic food supplement for improving intestinal balance and enhancing your dogs health and vitality. Petpepup for Dogs is the first certified organic probiotic produced using totally natural ingredients and methods. This product can be used confidently with the knowledge that it is environmentally friendly.
Dogs love this all natural, certified organic, probiotic powder. Careful manufacturing produces strong, viable cultures delivered in a food based product. This rich powder is high in active enzymes, antioxidants, natural amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals. Great for restoring and maintaining dogs’ digestive balance.
Particularly helpful for dogs under stress, competing, training, travelling, breeding, lactating, undergoing rapid growth and effective in restoring intestinal flora after treatment with antibiotics, dewormers and other medications.
Petpepup for Dogs may also assist with:
Healthy coat
Good digestion
Overall health
Healthy joints
Recovery from illness or surgery
Dogs in old age – gives back the young spark
Bitches in whelp
Pups while still feeding (before & after weaning)
Improving energy levels http://www.petpepup.com.au/ingredients/a…
You can feed any kind of pre-made raw diet, but you’re right you won’t know exactly how much of what organ % you are feeding. Pre-made is already balanced for you, but some may only be balanced because of added vitamins and minerals. And it’s alot more money.
First, cook the veggies (but I recommend leaving them out all together). Dogs can’t digest raw vegetables very well because of their fast GI system (they need a fast GI, to eat a raw meat diet. Their fast digestive systems are part of why they don’t get sick from raw meat or garbage they eat off the ground. The other part is because their stomach’s are highly acidic. Raw veggies can hurt the balance of acid in their stomachs.) Also, never feed onions or cabbage, these can cause anemia and kidney failure. Vegetables should not make up *more* than 1/4 of the dog’s overall diet.
On to the MEAT! A puppy needs to eat a wayyyyyy higher percent of body weight than an adult dog. An active adult dog needs to eat 2-3% of their body weight. Most puppies need to eat about 6-12% of their body weight!!
The trick is not to make your dobbie grow too fast, because then his growth plates won’t line up right and he’ll have a higher risk for bone/joint problems when he’s older (i think doberman grow up to age 2?). so the diet has to be very balanced. If you’re unsure, talk to a canine nutritionist. Alot of small pet store owners are certified as canine nutritionists and are happy to give you free consultations about raw feeding (they want you to buy their pre-made raw). They’ll help you know how much to feed.
So, here is one of my dog’s examples:
he’s 1.5 years old, 70 lbs, lean and very active.
He eats around 3% of his total body weight, which is about 2 lbs a day, that is 2 lbs of meat, organ and bone all together.
I do not balance the organ and bone daily. I balance over 1 or 2 weeks.
So the breakdown: My dog needs to eat about 1.20 lbs of BONE in one week. How do I know that? Dog’s need to eat 10% bone for prey model diets (with the exceptions, if you notice constipation, you can feed less bone. If you notice diarrhea, you can feed more bone). So, I look up how much bone is in an RMB(raw meaty bone). Wrap it up, label the wrapper, and store it in the freezer.
He also needs to eat 0.60 lbs (or 10oz) of LIVER each week to have a healthy balanced diet. Dogs need to eat 10% of secreting organs. 5% of that must be liver. So, I weigh and cut up the liver, wrap it up in 10oz sizes, freeze it.
He needs to eat 10 oz. of OTHER secreting organ (which includes pancreas, kidneys, brains, reproductive organs, spleen, and thymus). Weighed, wrapped, and in the freezer.
The rest is easy. Just plain meat. Dogs need a mainly red meat diet, but chicken is fine to use for RMBs. Meat can include GREEN TRIPE and heart (like someone else said). Not the white tripe you see in grocery stores, that’s been BLEACHED stripped of all it’s nutritional value. Add in fish every now and then (you can use canned jack mack in water, wild alaskan salmon in water, sardines packed in water. I feed raw smelt once every couple months) and a raw egg now and then, especially if you’re low on organs raw eggs are good.
Introduce each NEW type of protein VERY SLOWLY. or you will get a sick dog.
HTH…
There are so many people giving advice on this and wherever you turn you will hear different views.
I had a mentor when I first started and read books. Ian Billingshurst and Tom Lonsdale are the best but even they disagree on whether veg is a requirement or not.
I do feed raw pigs trotters as do many others and my dogs are not ill.
One of the things most will agree on is never feed complete and raw as it doesn’t add up to a balanced diet. You should go for one or the other, and for me, I would never go back to a complete again. I used raw many years ago, then went to complete in the middle with the BSE scare, and back to raw again. In the “complete” days I lost several with early with cancer and one with kidney failure at 4 yrs old.
It’s raw for mine all the way and have no doubts about it.
If you would like to email me on ldaydance@tiscali.co.uk then I will send you some stuff to read. Then you have to make your own choices based on what you read.
What I would say – is that you do have consider why/when complete foods came about, and why most are owned by companies like Nestle who just want an outlet for their waste cereal products etc and just what goodness is lost in the high heat processes that take place when producing.
If it’s that good then why do they keep bringing out more “improved” recipes. You can’t improve on nature’s recipe – raw.
Just to say that in general my dogs get approx 1 1/2 lb of meat per day, plus some mixer biscuit, plus bone.
Your best bet is to join the rawfeeding and rawchat lists on yahoo groups.
Go check out the rawfeeding list, we have something like 15,000 members, most have been rawfeeding large numbers of dogs for a very long time.
Basically it goes like this, you feed appx 3% of your dogs estimated ideal adult body weight per day. You can feed once a day, or twice a day or as many as 4 or 5 times a day if raising a very young pup, but the total amount of food your dog intakes needs to be in the range of appx 3% of his ideal adult weight. That is, if you have a dog that should weigh 75 pounds, then you can start him on 2.25 pounds of food per day, and see how he does.If he starts to get thin, increase the amount, or increase the fat, or add another feeding per day, whatever works. If he get chubby, cut the fat, decrease his amount, or skip a feeding per day, this diet is extrodinarily easy to tweak to each individual dogs needs. This 2.25 pd amount with a 9 mon old pup, I would offer in two feedings, just to keep from over doing things, esp at first. Biggest problem new folks have is inducing of “cannon butt” (diarhea) by giving too much food, or too much variety too fast. You want to shoot for 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ (and half the organ amount should be liver) . Ditch the veggies, dogs are carnivores and A) can not digest them and B) have no nutritional need for them.
You want to strive for variety, but over time. Most folks start on chicken. Its bland and has a high bone content, which helps to prevent that cannon butt I mentioned earlier. With a dog the size of a Dobe, I would get either leg quarters and give him two, one in am, one in pm, or better yet, get whole chickens, lop them into four peices and feed him the parts. one meal he gets a breast with wing attached, next meal he could get a leg quarter. This way his meat/bone ratio is more natural. Save organs for later, after hes been eating raw for a month or so with no issues. You want to avoid the too much, too soon issues. My kids currently eat venison, rabbit, pork, chicken, duck, turkey, beef and fish, and have been raw fed for 17 months now. There are just a few of us on YA who truly endorse and encourage raw feeding, the rest , well….do not be surprised if some of the answers you get are a bit wacky.
Here are some links for youhttp://rawlearning.com/http://rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
HTH,
The mindset of the RMB lobby is more reminiscent of the creationist philosophy than the maverick. Why let the evidence get in the way of what you believe? It is remarkable that the RMB philosophy that dogs have not changed since domestication claims to be based on evolution when a basic concept of evolution is change.
Dogs have been domesticated for about 14,000 years and have changed considerably from their wild ancestors, not just the morphology but also the physiology. Change happens much faster by selective breeding than by evolution (natural selection.) Domestic dogs have a highly sophisticated digestive system which is attuned to deal with a diet which is not available in the wild (cooked carbohydrate).
A diet based on home prepared food, raw or cooked does have a part to play in health promotion, especially in cases of undiagnosed food intolerance.
A diet based on whole, cereal grains can meet the task of being convenient as well as bestowing health benefits. A bag might cost a little more than Mr Coe’s Woofo but it’ll go further so the daily feeding cost won’t be much more and you won’t have to clean the dog’s teeth.
I wouldn’t feed him 100% raw meat at anytime, it is bad for their overall digestive system, though they can live well if they do have a raw diet.
You need to feed him a mixture of raw, cooked and also veggies and rice, but you should really give him complete dog food as well as it is better for their teeth, digestion and above all, their breath!
what ever you do Do Not give your doggie Raw Pork it will make him very ill