Vet Accusing Me Of Causing Disease In My Puppy By Feeding Raw!?!?
I have a small breed puppy who’s now 6months old. I’ve fed him barf since he arrived at 3months of age. I also feed things like eggs, offal, sardines, cottage cheese (seldom), chicken wings, ox tail, etc, all in moderation. Recently he’s been diagnosed with Metaphyseal Osteodystrophy. My vet has always pushed Science Diet onto me which I don’t like & never buy & is now telling me that if my puppy has this condition then it’s caused by diet. Obviously, I’m distressed by this & would like to know more so that I can have an informed debate with this vet about this accusation. If it’s that puppys shouldn’t have such a high protein diet then is it correct to assume that every wild dog/wolf/dingo is walking around with the same condition!?!?
I really need to know that I haven’t caused this disease by feeding raw…
What do you think? I’m meeting with my vet later today to discuss referring my pup to a specialist…
Similar Posts:
- Raw Feeding (prey Model Diet) For Puppies?
- Protein and Your Dog
- Large/giant Breed Puppy Feeding?
- How Much and How Often Should I Feed My Dog
- Can You Raw Feed A Weaning Puppy?
Does the vet who warned you of these so-called dangers also have a sign up warning clients of the recent salmonella outbreak caused by commercial pet food?http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/images/RogerMeaco… Letter from a vet that was published in a veterinary journal asking this same question.
It really sh*ts me when these professional people make such outrageous claims about a natural diet. Although I disagree with the additions of vegetables and dairy (and most supplements) into a carnivores diet, the diet your dog is eating is much healthier than any cooked kibble.
** Raw feeding your dog a species appropriate diet is NOT high protein compared to many kibbles. People forget to take the moisture content of the meat into account. Puppies raised this way DO NOT have the growth spurts that dogs on kibble and carbohydrates do. Their growth is steady and slower so bone development occurs at at more natural rate.
This is from an article published in The Irish Setter Club newsletter. It is written by a vet who is extrmely knowledgeable about this condition AND he quotes other studies and sources unlike your vet!!http://www.irishsetterclub.org/PDF/Revis…
Causes and Predispositions
The cause of HOD remains unknown; however, there are many speculations. In Weimareiners, a hyper immune response to some trigger has been noted (Abels, Harrus, Angles; and Harrus, Waner, Aizenberg). The disease in Weimareiners sounds a lot like the disease in the Irish Setters (Angles). This is the rationale for anti-inflammatory prednisone. Stress may precipitate the disease, including a rapid dietary change over 1 to 6 days. Viral causes and vaccinations also have been implicated, although they too just might be one more kind of stress, e.g., 3 to 5 days after the third “combo” vaccine (modified live virus), after administration of Rabies vaccines in four- month old puppies (two cases), or a fourth (often unnecessary) vaccine at 16 to 18 weeks. Vitamin C deficiency also has been speculated as a possible cause; however, there is neither documentation nor scientific reason for this in the dog, and Vitamin C therapy has not met with scientific success.
An infectious origin has been proposed, and there are reports of hematogenous (blood borne) bacteria producing florid radiographic changes in the metaphyses similar to those of HOD. A good radiologist may be necessary to distinguish between possible hematogenous infection, osteomyelitis (bone infection) and HOD radiographic changes. This author is unaware of any published literature correlating blood culture results with HOD.
This disease is also known as HOD (Hypertrophic osteodystrophy.)
You need a new vet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m an Irish Setter person, so I am familiar with this disease. I am providing you a wonderful link. Please read it all. I will tell you… many, many vets don’t treat this properly. You really need to educate yourself on the treatment.
Good luck!!
wow the first couple answers are so wrong(well nab and girlslik-the rest is cut off))
Science diet is a very bad food
BARF is an excellent choice
print out some info about these things and show them to your vet
add: most vets know nothing of canine nutrition, and are paid off to sell Science Diet, so this doesnt surprise me lol
Thank you for educating me. I had never heard of this so I looked it up at http://www.peteducation.com The cause is not known so it is doubtful that you could have caused it by feeding something different than what your vet believes in. There are some theories about the causes but no actual answers.
This is what I found on this subject…
( http://taywoodcavaliers.homestead.com/BA… )
From what I have read, it’s fine for a puppy….but I think this is going to be one of those topics that is very contraversial to many people. You will have people yelling don’t do it and others that say it’s perfectly fine…..I am one of those people who say it’s fine and quite healthy for them.
well i have a dog named bella and me and my mom weretalking abbout what dogs eat and my mother said they also eatraw stuff and sometimes thats all they eat i asked if that would make them sick she said no so i guess its fine to feed your pup raw stuff
I would invest in a experienced Holistic vet that encourages homecooked/raw diets
EDIT:and who has years of experience with these diets.
This article seems to link the condition to vaccinations!http://www.thensome.com/hod.htm
(lots of reading)
Get to a specialist and get away from your vet. Nobody knows exactly what causes this.
A raw diet isn’t high protein sweetie, remember that raw fresh foods are really high in water content, it makes the protein content come in around an average of 20% – lower than a lot of kibbles!
I agree with others, a second opinion in general is recommended for serious diagnoses, especially when a vet is going to pull the “diet” card without substantial reasoning. It’s hog-wash, try and find a better vet, and one who’s going to listen!
Don’t fret! Hope you find a vet that’s helpful!!!
Find a new vet.
what disease did he say the dog has? Unless the meat was tainted to begin with(low odds to begin with) and has been handled properly you have nothing to worry abouthttp://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfe… join this group. Of course he pushed science diet he gets paid to. And depending on the specialist and whether they actually have experience with dogs fed on raw don’t take anything he says to heart
the number of vets and specialist who are raw friendly is low but growing steadily.http://www.angelfire.com/az2/iscaz/hyper… – hell they haven’t even figured out if this is possibly hereditary. dogs grow at a more natural rate on raw so I doubt its the cause of this. http://www.k9snaturally.com/prorawvets.h… – raw friendly vets hope all this helps do not get discouraged. Others i have talked to have told of vets trying to scare them from this diet.
I googled and came up with this link below. There is thinking that too much protein and calories can cause it.
I do know that many of the high quality dog foods I researched when looking for a good food for my puppy where not recommended for puppies because of high protein content.
There are plenty of links if you do the google search for “metaphyseal osteodystropy”. The information I gleened was just from one site so there may be many different answers for you.
In my opinion, you need to find a new vet.
I absolutely WILL NOT argue with my vet about raw diet. If they choose ignorance, I cannot help that. I can, however, choose where I take my pets.
I ditched my vet not so long ago because, like I said, I refuse to argue with foolish vets who choose not to accept that just maybe they are wrong and should open their minds a little.
Might I suggest yahoo’s raw feeding group:http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfe…
Those people know so very much more than I.
….when, oh when, will people just open their eyes…
The diet could be the cause. It is very hard to feed a raw diet that has the correct balance of minerals, protein and vitamins. I feed my adult dogs a grainless food, but will wait on feeding such a high protein diet to puppies until it has been around a little longer and more research has been done.
An imbalance of minerals, protein, and vitamins interferes with normal deposition of calcium phosphate (bone) and turnover of cartilage which lead to the physical, visible changes. If a high-protein, high calorie/energy, and highly palatable diet producing overnutrition is indeed a candidate for cause, the process possibly traces its route through excess calcium, hypercalcemia, hypercalcitonism, hypoparathyroidism, and retarded bone resorption. The body reacts to excess calcium by lowering the level in the blood (excretion, deposition) but it goes too far into hypocalcemia because of the persistent hypercalcitonism. As you learned in the chapter on nutrition, this condition arises because excess dietary calcium stimulates the gut to secrete more gastrin.
On the other hand, some investigators remain skeptical because hyperthermia (fever), which is a reliable sign in most diagnosed cases, was not recorded in the experimentally over-nourished dogs in the main nutrition study, and certain histologic and radiographic signs found in HOD cases in the field were not seen in the experiment dogs. Further, HOD does occur in some dogs on dietary intake that would not be considered overnutrition under current guidelines.
Raw is one of the best things you could ever feed any dog, as you obviously know, otherwise you wouldnt be feeding it!… with young dogs it is very important to make sure that you are careful to balance the nutrients, as best as you can…. it sounds like you’ve fed all the right things, but not sure about if in the right amounts…. do you feed any vegetable matter???
what little i know about MO is that there is some research to show that it can be caused by reactions to certain vaccinations… while an extraordinarily high protein diet is not good, a high protein diet in growing animals is necessary for proper growth… but from what you describe there is nothing extraordinarily high about the protein your dog is receiving…
a lot of people, especially vets, will “poo poo” raw, and you may want to find yourself a raw friendly vet…its very hard to convince traditional vets that raw is good for dogs, and you’ll find them blaming the diet for every thing they can, and making a few things up! (i once had a vet, who at first DIDNT know i fed raw, say that my rhodesian had wonderful teeth, best he’d seen in a long time… but as soon as i told him i fed raw he said it was bad for teeth and ruins teeth… huh???(she’s been on raw for years!!!)…
anyone who does research into dog foods will learn that most common processed dog foods have processed grains in them, which is popular because it is “cheap”, but is difficult for a dog to digest, and is the biggest culprit in bloat…. the grain is included in the nutrient profile on the label, but yet the dog gets very little nutrients from it, so it in fact creates its own set of imbalances….
you’ve obviously learned that salmonella and e.coli is extraordinarily difficult for a dog to get, because the food needs to stay in the stomach for several hours before e.coli and salmonella can get into the host system, which is not the case in dogs (it moves into the intestine very quickly)…
good luck with your puppy and i hope you can find a specialist that is raw friendly…
To be honest I would never ever feed my pet any of those things with the exception of an egg every now and then (like 1 or 2 times a year). You aren’t suppose to feed dogs chicken bones anyways because of the splinter like marrow and could easily kill your dog. BUY DOG FOOD!!! It’s what it’s MADE FOR!!! And I think if a police officer heard about the barf thing you could be arrested for animal abuse.
first of all never feed a dog or cat chicken wings!!!!! the bones get caught in there throats. because they can not break it down to digest!!!second of all you do not have a wild dog there belly can handle bacteria and most disease’s from eating raw meat. your pup can not.our bodies can handle the food you feed you dog. but you little pup over time will contract different dis es from eating human food.there are allot more thing es i would like to tell you but not enough space your best bet go to the library for way more better information.all the best.
I feed partial raw. While I didn’t start my dogs at 6 mo of age, I doubt that it’s the cause of your problems.
FIRST: you posted this way too late for us to help you TODAY
SECOND: Your list of foods sounds ok.
THIRD: You need to google Metaphyseal Osteodystrophy and find out more about this illness
FOURTH: You need a 2nd opinion, and NOT one recommended by THIS vet.
FIFTH: Until you know a LOT MORE, you need to NOT have a discussion trying to stand up for your beliefs against this vet! You’ll lose because you don’t know enough.
SIXTH: If there’s a vet school in your area, ask for a referral to it.
You did NOT state what breed your dog is and that IS important information.
You need to read more on BARF / Raw Feeding.
And I’m not impressed with Science Diet. -!-
read this
Chocolate contains theobromine (a methylxanthine derivative). It can cause a dog to vomit, have diarrhea, pant excessively, urinate frequently, develop a great thirst, have seizures, show hyperactivity, get an abnormal heart beat and possibly die. The negative effects depend on the dosage, the size of the dog, and the type of chocolate.
Caffeine/Coffee warrant the same precautions as for chocolate. Caffeine, like theobromine, is a methylxanthine derivative with similar effects on dogs.
Alcohol can cause vomiting, diarrhea, lack of coordination, poor breathing, abnormal blood acidity, coma and death, just like in humans. The difference is that dogs are much smaller and are more susceptible to intoxication.
Onions, garlic and chives in all forms (dry, raw, cooked) contain thiosulphate, which can irritate the gastrointestinal system of your dog. A relatively high dosage (600-800 grams) in one meal or spread apart over a few days can damage red blood cells (haemolytic anaemia)
Macadamia Nuts (both raw and roasted, as well as macadamia butter) contain an unknown toxin that can cause locomotory difficulties: weakness, panting, tremors and swollen limbs. [3]. Commonly in cookies, so be careful what you feed your dog.
Grapes and Raisins – can lead to kidney failure [4]. As yet, it is not known what substance in grapes causes this. Be careful, as raisins are often in cake and cookies.
Avocado – the substance Persin can cause vomiting, diarrhea and sometimes heart congestion.
Yeast dough – this refers to the dough prior to cooking. The yeast can continue to rise in the dog’s stomach and cause painful bloating, gas and even rupture of the intestines or stomach.
Raw or undercooked meat and eggs – While there is controversy surrounding the role of raw meat in a dog’s diet, studies have shown that raw meat has a higher likelihood of harboring harmful bacteria than cooked or prepared dog food. As with humans, care needs to be taken in handling raw meat and eggs to avoid the possibility of contamination with Salmonella bacteria and E. coli. Raw eggs contain an enzyme (avidin) that can lead to skin and coat problems for a dog.
Milk – owing to the lack of lactase, consumption may lead to bloating, gas, diarrhea and other digestive upsets.
Xylitol – this can lead to liver failure through the over-release of insulin, vomiting, lethargy and loss of coordination. It does not take long to see signs of nearing liver failure – only a few days. Be very careful as this substance in a wide range of products, such as candy, chewing gum, toothpaste and baked goods.
Bones can cause choking, or they can break apart into jagged pieces that become lodged in the digestive tract. Look for sturdy marrow bones that are less likely to splinter or nylon bones that wear down slowly.
Corn on the cob is one of the most common ways a dog can get a blocked intestine. The dog bites of a piece of the cob one inch long and swallows it. The corn is digested off the cob in the tummy and the cob is left to block the small intestine and feels like a brillo pad trying to scrape it’s way down the digestive track. This is seen in vet offices often and can kill the dog if not removed surgically.
Salmon and trout frequently have a parasite that cooking does not kill. It is fine for humans but can harm dogs.
Chicken bones can get lodged into the roof of the mouth
Check the food you are sharing carefully. Many of these ingredients are tucked away in cookies, bread, cake, preserves and other processed foods. It is really important to be aware of what you are feeding your canine companion so that you can avoid these problem foods.
Ensure that your dog eats a healthy and balanced diet. Read up on the appropriate foods for your dog type and make regular vet visits to ensure that your dog is in top shape.
Minimize snacks from the human table. It encourages poor manners from both the dog and the human and it blurs the line between what is good food for the animal and what is not. Start out right and keep it right.
Other potential dangers
Pear pips, the kernels of plums, peaches and apricots, apple core pips (contain cyanogenic glycosides resulting in cyanide posioning)
Potato peelings and green looking potatoes
Rhubarb leaves
Mouldy/spoiled foods
Hops (used in home brewing)
Tomato leaves & stems (green parts)
Broccoli (in large amounts)
Cigarettes, tobacco, cigars